Rank Reduction = Better?[]
Anyone have an idea why this Noble Phantasm is better than Kilenc Sarkany, despite being E-, as opposed to it's D? Zahadrin (talk) 06:09, November 16, 2013 (UTC)
Where does it say it is better?Waifu slayer (talk) 07:52, November 16, 2013 (UTC)
It may be lower rank, but it has a bigger range and can target more people, not to mention in game seems to do more damage judging from the screen shots. Honestly I think the reduction in rank is to do with her being changed to the Berserker class at the time, thus resulting in a reduction in her "Musical Talents". So while she has less restraint and unleashes her full power, her psychoness makes her less co-ordinated. But that's just my theory. Hawkeye2701 (talk) 08:52, November 16, 2013 (UTC)
Target more people does not mean more powerful. The effect is still anti-unit. If it jumped to anti-fortress or something, then your argument may hold some water, but it did not.
"Doing more damage" is because you are fighting her later in the game. There is no evidence to suggest that it is actually significantly more powerful. There is really no evidence to conclusively say that Erzebet is better. Waifu slayer (talk) 16:04, November 16, 2013 (UTC)
Forgive me, Waifu, but Hawkeye seems to hold substantial water to me. I'll go with his theory, as it makes sense. Zahadrin (talk) 16:39, November 16, 2013 (UTC)
This is a free country, you are free to entertain whatever theory you have, as long as your speculation does not show up on the wiki as facts. Waifu slayer (talk) 16:42, November 16, 2013 (UTC)
- It's worth noting that the actual Bathory Erzsebet attack in game is pretty much the same attack as Kilnec Sarkany, only with the Bathory Erzsebet "castle" serving as additional amplification. The reason the attack does more damage despite Bathory Erzsebet being lower ranked is because she is actually using both Noble Phantasms at the same time. Or that's how I see it at least. Shrug. It's speculation either way and like Waifood said, shouldn't show up on the wiki without an official source.--Otherarrow (talk) 20:51, November 16, 2013 (UTC)
I'm personally still trying to wrap my head around the idea that I hold any kind of water around here. XD Still, I think you're being a bit presumptuous to say that "There is really no evidence to conclusively say that Erzebet is better." Especially when, as Otherarrow said, she literally goes through the same motion with the giant castle. That'd be like saying I'm going to scream my head off, but this of course will have more effect than me doing this through a wall of sub-woofers. And I brought up that is has a wider range, so even if it's weaker, it has the capacity to hit more targets, but since you then brought up that it is still an Anti-Unit ability, this then means it's the screaming and the castle, at one target. Applying basic logic would tell you that this thing clearly does something superior to Kilenc Sarkany, whether in target number, range, or power, we simply can't say conclusively what it does better until we're given more information, probably through an artbook or something like we got with most of the original Extra phantasms. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 02:34, November 17, 2013 (UTC)
- You misread me. I didn't say that Bathory Erzsebet is identical to Kilenc Sarkany in execution. I said that she was clearly using Kilenc Sarkany, but with the Bathory Erzsebet castle as an amp. The attack is stronger because she is using Kilenc Sarkany with Bathory Erzsebet. From what we can infer from the ranking, when used separately, Kilnec Sarkany would be stronger, but Bathory Erzsebet would have more range/hit more targets/whatever. But the attack she uses in game is her using them together. From what I can tell from the animation at least. But this is all my speculation.--Otherarrow (talk) 03:42, November 17, 2013 (UTC)
So in your opinion it'd be like The Wind King or Breaker Gorgon? A Lesser Phantasm used to support or enhance a stronger ability? I know those aren't the best examples, but you get the idea, by your reckoning Otherarrow, it's not the fact that it's Bathory Erzebet basically being Kilenc Sarkany and then some, it's Kilenc Sarkany being made stronger by the inclusion of Bathory Erzebet and the Castle Phantasm itself might not do much on its own? That makes sense. Like I said right at the start though, we can see from its stats that while a lower rank, Bathory Erzebet does still have a higher range and bigger target number. While it may be a weaker support phantasm used to enhance Kilenc Sarkany, the numbers do pretty much tell us that its effect is superior in range and target number, even if it is just being used to boost Kilenc Sarkany. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 07:33, November 17, 2013 (UTC)