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I wonder... it's clearly visible that Lord El-Melloi II is much higher than Waver Velvet. What's the deal? I mean, Waver was in that age when people stop to grow in height, so it can be only a miracle of Holy Grail. Is there some explanation or what?

89.249.244.214 06:18, April 25, 2014 (UTC) Saru 89.249.244.214 06:18, April 25, 2014 (UTC)

Dunno, Waver seems very young to me. Sandubadear (talk) 20:41, April 25, 2014 (UTC)

According, to some of the earlier Edits, Waver grew by approximately 25 or 30 centimeters in the later part of his life. So I thinking either he started eating more and working out more while having growth spurts. Or he may done something more drastic, like use magic.Palantian (talk) 12:02, January 12, 2015 (UTC)

Waver was only around 15 when he participated in the Grail War, and while not the norm, people have been known to continue growing into their early 20s. So its really not that unusual for him to have grown. I mean he was shorter than Irisviel during the 4th war. Hawkeye2701 (talk) 12:50, January 12, 2015 (UTC)

15 years old? I thought he was 19 years old.GathN7 (talk) 15:17, January 12, 2015 (UTC)

Nah, sure he's about the same age, if only a bit older than Taiga, and she's 24 in Fate/Stay Night, making her only 14 during Fate/Zero. Hawkeye2701 (talk) 21:16, January 12, 2015 (UTC)

Wait your kidding me right? He can't be 15, the light novel said 19. Where did the 15 come from? Don't tell, it was a spelling mistake and that this whole time he was actually 15.ChroniclerV (talk) 08:02, January 13, 2015 (UTC)

Well the Baka Tsuki translation does indeed say 19, but I don't speak Japanese so I can't speak towards any translation error, but in the Drama CD, it's generally implied he and Taiga are around the same age. I've honestly no idea at this point. Hawkeye2701 (talk) 15:23, January 13, 2015 (UTC)

So then Mabye there was an error in age estimates. GathN7 (talk) 15:25, January 13, 2015 (UTC)

Well again, my solid frame of reference is Taiga's confirmed age and the fact that there is ten years between the Fourth and Fifth Wars, making her 14 at the time. Looking at it, if Waver was in fact 19 at the time, that would make him, a 19 year old British Boy, shorter than a 14 year old Japanese girl, which is statistically unlikely, but admittedly not impossible. Then, assuming his age is correct, that would mean that, again assuming the above measurements are correct and that he could potentially keep growing until the age of 21, then he would have grown approximately 25 to 30 centimeters over two years, not unheard of for someone younger than him, but decidely unusual for someone his age, again assuming that 19 is the correct age.

As it stands, with all these assumptions in logic for a subject that is generally in the realms of common knowledge, it seems much more likely that an error was made, either by the author, the translator or even the artist who designed his current look possibly being unaware of his apparent age during Fate/Zero. Hawkeye2701 (talk) 17:32, January 13, 2015 (UTC)

I hardly believe Waver was only 14-15.  I mean, just look at him. Yeah, he's a shrimp, but he hardly resembles a schoolboy. Not to mention, that if he was so young, Rider wouldn't have a reason to make laugh of his heights. And, as I understand it, Clock Tower more like college, than a school, so the students' age starts about 17-18 years old.

P.S. sorry for my bad English

89.249.240.30 20:45, January 13, 2015 (UTC) Saru 89.249.240.30 20:45, January 13, 2015 (UTC)

To that, I would say watch Sailor Moon and Neon Genesis Evangelion. Characters in Evangelion are 14, and I think Sailor Moon is the same way. But all of them could be taken as older than they are, due to how they appear. More or less, it's mostly just seeming older than he is, ya know? Zahadrin (talk) 20:59, January 13, 2015 (UTC)

... I don't know where you went to school, but Waver looks exactly like an English Secondry School student, whom are aged 11 to 17 give or take.

As for Rider, he's over six foot at least, him making fun of someone for being scrawny isn't exactly a prescedent.

And finally, The Clock Tower doesn't have an age limit and is seemingly based on Merit as Waver notes it's unusual for those with a lineage less than Six Generations to get in and that Rin Tohsaka, who was in Year 2 of the Japanese school system, making her approximately 14 has a place there not six months after the end of Fate/Stay Night.Hawkeye2701 (talk) 21:07, January 13, 2015 (UTC)

Wow-wow-wow! Rin is 14?! She's at least 17! Or I failed to understand what you said.

And by saying that Waver doesn't look like schoolboy I ment his behavior, not his looks. But maybe it's just my impression.

About Taiga. On illustration to the audio drama she is shown wearing Homurahara's uniform, so, if I'm not mistaken, she should be at least 15-16 years old, because Homurahara is high school. Not 14.

89.249.240.30 12:34, January 14, 2015 (UTC) Saru 89.249.240.30 12:34, January 14, 2015 (UTC)

Ah, indeed I have made an error, there's 3 Year 2s in the Japanese School system, so eliminating the elementary level age 7-8, I thought she'd be the next one, but I missed the last, which is age 16-17, So she's at least 16, not 17, but that's neither here nor there at this point.

On the other hand, the fact that Taiga is wearing the Homurahara uniform makes her at least 15, so given what data we have of her confirmed age later, we would probably be safe to assume the lowest possible to allow for her age to be accurate and still allow for the ten year gap.

But this does not exactly help us with the topic over all.

Waver's age is given as 19 during Fate/Zero. He is drawn as distinctly taller and more muscular during Fate/Stay Night, what we should be looking at is the answer that leads to the fewest assumptions over all, occam's razor as it were.

As it is, the simplest explanation for this is human error, either Waver's age has been mistranslated, or the artist drawing his older self didn't know what age he was supposed to be during the Fourth War.Hawkeye2701 (talk) 14:17, January 14, 2015 (UTC)

I thought it was Takeuchi's drawing, so it's strange for him not to know the actual age oh his own character (his and Nasu's in the first place). But you're right. There is really no other explanation. Thanks.

89.249.240.30 14:25, January 14, 2015 (UTC) Saru 89.249.240.30 14:25, January 14, 2015 (UTC)

No problem, sorry for my handful of errors during the debate, it slowed us down on reaching a conclusion. Hawkeye2701 (talk) 14:36, January 14, 2015 (UTC)

Genderswap Popularity[]

I noticed how this guy is famous for having been drawn as a woman, a lot. What is up with that?Vindicator22 (talk) 07:37, February 5, 2015 (UTC)

Well, Type Moon are well known for their April Fools releases which are, as to be expected, done for laughs and not to be taken seriously. In one of those, the characters of the Fate series were repurposed into a slice of life comedy where Alexander (Somehow playing the shy nerd despite being built like a brick shit house) is trying to capture the affections of El-Melloi, the genderbent waver. This is more than likely the source of the popular appearance of Girly-Wavers.Hawkeye2701 (talk) 14:26, February 5, 2015 (UTC)

Oh, I see.Vindicator22 (talk) 15:31, February 5, 2015 (UTC) 

A popular nickname for said Girly-Wavers is Wilma Velvet.Shawn Warrynn (talk) 06:25, March 1, 2015 (UTC)

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